Guild Membership Requirements discussion

Umm, I think that, while thraven was 1000% percent correct, on his assessment of the ratios, I do know that it is possible, to be very unlucky... I have attacked multiple people, and I know I should have one, but still lost. If I only attacked people I easily defeat, tis no honor in it. For instance one character I lost too, beat me bu .12 dmg, and I didn't hit him at all. The guy who knighted me, has had less stats than me for a while, and was still beating me, even though he shouldn't have. (now I win) But over all, the ratio is a good indicator. (Saci, or whoever it was, stop attacking character who may beat you. Write don your stats ifn you can't remember them, and make sure your character is better than those you attack.)

morbaag wrote:

lvl 2= stat average 10
lvl3=stat ave at 15
etc etc...

Sorry, didn't notice this earlier.. It doesn't work this way.. I'm lvl 15 now.. Five times that??? 75 stat.. Even most lvl 25's dont have this unless its bonus from weapons and rings and stuff.. There is no definite stat calculation.. Only wierd and Abrasive's calculator can help u see where u stand in stats for your lvl..

This is their build calculator: http://cse.unl.edu/~joclark/de/main.php

It works only in mozilla and it will tell u whom you can beat and whom u cant for ur stats for that particular lvl!!

Abt the win loss ratio thing, thats not always a good calculator for how good a player is although I agree that it should be a requirement..

Ok for the new guild page this is how the guild requirements is going to look. It is based on morbaag and Thraven have posted here earlier..

1. Should be an active player
2. Should donate gold to the guild if and when an expansion of the guild castle is necessary and if the sfatt asks you to.
3. Register with the forum on joining and visit weekly at least. The forums are how we exchange ideas and plans
4. Never attack members of our guild or our allies
5. If you are a premium member. put [DS] in front of your name
6. Keep your WIN/LOSS and Gold(+)/Gold(-) ratio in good standing. If the guild notice you have been falling in this areas, you will get a warning about getting your status straight. If not you will be kicked out of the guild due to others who are willing to replace you.
7. Inform the guild of repeated attacks you, and their guild if they have one. Also spend your money to avoid being added to someones loot list

I've already made the image request so please send me an ingame message if u have any issue with this..

I know, but I think I said lower than lvl 5... above lvl 5 it would have to change...

And the rules are good, especially number 2... 'and if the sfatt asks you to' thas funny...

but make a new lvl limit, and evil alignment, would make it better...

The lvl requirement can be mentioned in the Guild name.. Higher the better really because the server is moving along now.. lvl 4's just dont cut it when there are 22's around.. Exceptions can be made for active players though..

Sorry my spelling sucked there.. It took me 2 hours to make the guild page request so........

Abt evil alignment, I'm still not convinced that we should mention it at all..

morbaag wrote:

If I only attacked people I easily defeat, tis no honor in it.

Honor what a quaint concept. Challenge, that I can understand, but what has honor to do with defeating your foes?
Remember - the best time to kick a man is when he's down

Seriously tho, an occasional close fight to prove something is nice but a steady diet of them is not healthy. Your average fight should more closely resemble a mugging - your target has something you want and you're taking it from him with as much violence as possible and as little danger to yourself. I recall someone saying that the ideal fight is 1 round long "I hit them, they run"

call it what ya will, I dislike attacking people that are low lvl, less they are on our loot list... I prefer doin the search for people of your level or stronger, and than attacking them ifn I think I'll win. Sorry, but If the person is down, than I would have more fun, helping them up and knocking them down again...

@angela, the evil alignment, is VERY important. Our name is DARK STALKERS!!!!! not the happy pixie fairies, or virtuos heros, or some other equally pansyified name... Light charactes will ruin our reputation! We cant have a knight of light, going around saying, I am in the guild 'Dark Stalkers' tis irony, and jus not right...
@angela again... I wasn't making fun of your spellin, I often do the same... adn I like it when others do cuz it makes for funny words... sfatt...

morbaag wrote:

call it what ya will, I dislike attacking people that are low lvl, less they are on our loot list... I prefer doin the search for people of your level or stronger, and than attacking them ifn I think I'll win. Sorry, but If the person is down, than I would have more fun, helping them up and knocking them down again...

I'm not talking about twacking a lower level character, if I only did than then i would still be level 1 - maybe a lil higher from the raid the countryside missions. What I am talking about is looking at your opponent before attacking him, if the fight looks even, or worse like he stands a good chance of winning - then why are you attacking him? (that was a serious question) I can understand the idea of an even fight in a game context, but if I can get my 2 xp and some loot from hitting a wounded higher level knight, or just snag an easy 1 xp by hitting a knight who is not as sell statted or equipped as me - I will, a lost fight loses me xp (vs higher levels) and coin both in the coin I didn't win, coin I may lose and coin that I have to spend to heal myself for the next fight.

Quote :

@angela, the evil alignment, is VERY important. Our name is DARK STALKERS!!!!! not the happy pixie fairies, or virtuos heros, or some other equally pansyified name... Light charactes will ruin our reputation! We cant have a knight of light, going around saying, I am in the guild 'Dark Stalkers' tis irony, and jus not right...

Happy Pixie Fairies Yes yes! can we have a vote on changing the guild's name?! huh? huh? huh?!!!!
OK, seriously, I like the idea of evil members in our guild, if a knight of light wants to join us - if he's willing to role play it we can think of him as a spy sent to infiltrate the enemy's castle. What I am saying is that if the person at the keyboard is willing to play at being an evil knight, then I don't mind what the alignment slider says, but if he's gonna come across all Lancerlot and such - then we can show him the door (you know the one over the edge of the cliff . . . ) <shove> LOL

btw - by "playing evil" I mean acting with an evil view point, NOT being a jerk or a bully. (just in case some gets the wrong idea) We can be evil knights and still play with fairness and honor as players even though our knights would wonder what we're talking about.

While we're discussing rules, a couple that Fionn had posted led me to think about some important rules that shouldn't have be posted but should be anyway - it's easy to have the rule posted than have trouble start and not have the rule in effect.

No foul language - unless we put an age restriction on guild membership, maybe we should take a poll of our members' ages.

Respect the guild - it shouldn't have to be stated but it is an important rule, should be #1 - be proud of DS

Respect to your fellow guild members, no insulting or derogatory remarks, no RACIAL slurs, no "baiting" guildies.

Respect the admins - they're doing a thankless job to make this guild work!

Thraven Ferekzy wrote:

Quote :

@angela, the evil alignment, is VERY important. Our name is DARK STALKERS!!!!! not the happy pixie fairies, or virtuos heros, or some other equally pansyified name... Light charactes will ruin our reputation! We cant have a knight of light, going around saying, I am in the guild 'Dark Stalkers' tis irony, and jus not right...

OK, seriously, I like the idea of evil members in our guild, if a knight of light wants to join us - if he's willing to role play it we can think of him as a spy sent to infiltrate the enemy's castle. What I am saying is that if the person at the keyboard is willing to play at being an evil knight, then I don't mind what the alignment slider says, but if he's gonna come across all Lancerlot and such - then we can show him the door (you know the one over the edge of the cliff . . . ) <shove> LOL

I prefer having Dark aligned knights as well.. The reason I'm thinking abt this a bit is because we want the best knights too, not only the dark ones.. Would u rather have an excellent player who's a knight of light or a very poor player who's a dark knight..

I prefer having a completely dark guild as it makes it sound elite but it depends on the player.. If a player from another server i play on and who's amazing there wants to join I would definitely be for it regardless of his alignment..

Good point... But why not let them join, and then request they change alignment? (I know some items and such are only gettable by certain alignments...) Well, I donm't exactly know what that spy buisness was about... but I like the idea of pushing Lancelot out of the door by the cliff...

As far as changing aligment goes, it's not something to be undertaken lightly.
For instance I have a -650 alignment, if I was to attempt to move over to good that would be about 2-300 missions and or fights against evil knights. Now, I am not using an

Assassin's blade
Damage: 10 - 13
Socket: 2
Dexterity: -6
Stamina: -2
Sale price: 7.000 Credits
Requirement - two-hander-skills: 23
Requirement - Alignment: -600

but if I was I would have to change to a

Hypnotic blade
Damage: 9 - 12
Socket: 2
Dexterity: -5
Stamina: -4
Sale price: 5.750 Credits
Requirement - two-hander-skills: 22

as soon as my alignment dropped down below 600 at a cost of 2,250 credits and lesser stats, not to mention things like the 500 jewels spent sharpening a sword and any soul stones you have fitted in the sword
I would soon thereafter lose my

Amulet of poison
Holy-Damage: -1
Strength: +2
Fighting ability: +2
Sale price: 1500 Credits
Requirement - Level: 12
Requirement - Alignment: -500

There are also rings and soulstones that require alignment.

All told it would take me far too long and cost far to much for me to lightly consider changing my alignment - let alone attempt to begin the climb up to the opposed side. Any guild that made that a requirement would have to go without me, the only way I would even consider it - ummm , nope can't think of anything that would entice me to change my alignment. Sooo why would I attempt to make someone do something I wouldn't do myself?
I admit we can restrict alignment membership, and by doing so we sacrifice some good players for a guild image - that I am more willing to consider. Just remember when it comes to alignment, what are we looking at, the slider or the "played" alignment of the knights. Knights who have the "Horde of Darkness" moniker still use terms like honor and honest and are willing to protect the weak - are they evil? I have seen "Good" characters in games slaughter the helpless and prey upon those they were supposed to protect - were they good? This is what I mean by roleplay (just clarifying my stance).

The alignment issue is a thing we need to discuss.. Lots of question marks u know.. If having the better players is important them we shouldn't bother.. If its just an image (which I doubt anyone other than us will notice) then we have dark alignment!!

I see your point... (thraven) I was talking bout the slider thing, but ifn we were to make it roleplay thing, than that may work... (I know I'd have to become more evil, but I could do it) Is it possible to change Our name?
The image wouldn't matter, if we changed our name...



P.S As for guild requirements, ya can't attack your own guild members... (don't ask me how Iknow that... And don't ask Angela...)

Change name, character name or guild name?
The answer to either is technically "yes" but I don't think Fionn's gonna want to change the guild's name. Although I like Night Striders or Order of Bone . . .

what is wrong with dark stalkers anyway??
ok guys this is a rpg but at the end it is a g right :p

Ugh annoying.. The page didn't load and now I have to type the whole long post once again..!!

Ok First things first I like the name Dark Stalkers and all but as far as I'm concerned, we haven't progressed even to a fraction of the amount that we should have.. I mean we've been at this for well over a month.. Sure there's been good progress but still not nearly enough..

The culture is all wrong right now.. We are simply focusing on numbers rather than quality.. the best guilds in the server are rather strict about this.. Activity and smart playing is a necessity.. here the players dont seem to even have the interest to view the forums even now and then.. I'm even surprised that some of them know that there's a forum.

Its very upsetting to know that members from other guilds have the interest to register in our forum while our own guild members simply cant be bothered.. This is exactly the kind of attitude that we dont want in our guild.. Its time we start putting our foot down abt this as well.. Our requirements are not steady and rigid enough and they need to be enforced.

I hope Fionn reads this as well cause he needs to knw abt it too!!

|Angela| wrote:

Ok First things first I like the name Dark Stalkers and all but as far as I'm concerned, we haven't progressed even to a fraction of the amount that we should have.. I mean we've been at this for well over a month.. Sure there's been good progress but still not nearly enough..

I will take a sizable portion of that blame (not that Fionn's gonna escape it!), I didn't move quickly on the issues simply because I am not the guild leader and a lot of these are things a guild leader should do. Now while Fionn was away I started to take some action, but again I was hesitant because as I stated before it's Fionn's guild, while I have a lot of input and interest in it in the end Fionn is the leader.

Quote :

The culture is all wrong right now.. We are simply focusing on numbers rather than quality.. the best guilds in the server are rather strict about this.. Activity and smart playing is a necessity.. here the players dont seem to even have the interest to view the forums even now and then.. I'm even surprised that some of them know that there's a forum.

Its very upsetting to know that members from other guilds have the interest to register in our forum while our own guild members simply cant be bothered.. This is exactly the kind of attitude that we dont want in our guild.. Its time we start putting our foot down abt this as well.. Our requirements are not steady and rigid enough and they need to be enforced.

(see above) Again there was a delay on getting this initiative going, and hopefully now that Fionn's back he can take the helm and start moving on many of these issues.
Quantity, well you have to gather the wheat and the chaff and then seperate it . . . some potentially good players could look bad by just thier stats, simply because noone told them the lil tricks of the trade. I feel this is one of the most important things a guild in a game like KF can do.
Forum activity, I have said it before, you are looking at maybe 15-25% of a guild as forum actives - I'M GIVING AWAY JEWEL TICKETS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! and folk still aren't all visiting the forums! We can attempt carrot/stick, but really there isn't much stick we can apply in this game. Of course once we go to war folk who aren't forum aware are gonna wonder why they're getting whomped on . . .
I don't know, I simply know that I spend 3 years trying in various guilds in EQ to try to get folk to register and visit the forums and never found the golden bullet.

Nah I dont blame u for it actually.. It was more directed at Fionn's unusual inactivity than at u.. The rest of us are hampered by that fact that our leader isn't active enough.. Sure this may get me into bad books but I had and still have high hopes for this guild.. We've been doing really well but most of our plans seem to be held back due to his repeated absence.

I still disagree abt quantity over quality.. Half these people wont even know there's a WAR going on and whether they need to do anything abt it.. The only way we can calculate a win in a war is by making note of defence reports.. If they dont even come to the forum, how are we going to get their reports and more importantly the war result? Registering in the forums is a MUST I think and should be added to the guild requirements.. In fact I've already done that..

I've done as much as I could to make this guild awesome but its not going to b anyuse if its just around 5 or 6 people who actually benefit from this while the rest cant b bothered abt it..

Anyway I believe we r making some sort of progress but we can do better if we sort out the first para of this post somehow.. If he's not happy to hear it im sorry but its a fact..

guys guys guys (and ladies of course :p)

have you heard of murphy, he stated some rules
1- the leader is always right
2- if you think the leader is wrong apply rule #1

this is all about having fun but i do appretiate your concern in attandance, since we all do our best at least we spend some time in hear which is also very expensive. Lol we must be crazy siting in front of a screen for hours. Some have business, some do school. We cut from our resting times in doing it.
there are some reasons why we can not act together. one of the main reason is the time difference in the countries we are living. but cmon i am not gonna hide behind this fact and accept non-attandance.
there must be several acceptable reasons for non-attandance that we do not know.
We can down-size the guild in order to have a more effective knight power if we do not get down morralvise hence we will be loosing many ranks in guild statings. But even though if we are as effective then as we are now we will climb the chairs back easily. As a matter of fact I still do not know or am not sure whether the non- attandance in the forum is parallel to the non-attandence in the game.
There are many player who are not really players. I still do not get the logic. Why you start something that you are not gonna finish?
Even though higher attandance would be more preferable, I can say I am not so sad with the present situation, hence I am so happy and having fun with you guys. This is who we are and how we play. Additional attandence is for their favor not for ours

The number of people in the guild increases our ranking yes.. But u think the rank is judged by the position that we stand in the total loot list? Nope its not the case.. The best guild in s2 is undoubtably {TAX} But they are second or third in that list cause others have more members and tons of inactives.. The best guild is decided by lots of other things u c..

Even on s4, the best guilds are VI and SF but they aren't on the top of the table.. Its quality that matters here.. Active players is what we want..

Trust me saci, there are many things we would like to implement for the improvement of the guild, and there are many things we have already done.. Unfortunately Fionn's month long absence and in's and out's have hampered our progress severely.. His inactivity and the inactivity of others is why this whole issue has been brought up.. We dont know whether to move forward or not in case he disapproves of it as Thraven has stated countless number of times already that it is Fionn's guild and what we can do is limited. We are working towards solving this though and the guild we end up with shall definitely be a great one at the end of it all..

WHOA!!!!!! I think Sacis main point, was that THIS IS JUST A GAME!!!!!!

I know tis fun to win, but reality speaks clearest. It doesn't matter!

Now back to buisness, I think we should be very strict about our guidlines, anyone inactive or who seems to be faling behind on their stat, should be kicked. Quality is better tyhan Quantity as Angela put it.

|Angela| wrote:

The number of people in the guild increases our ranking yes.. But u think the rank is judged by the position that we stand in the total loot list? Nope its not the case.. The best guild in s2 is undoubtably {TAX} But they are second or third in that list cause others have more members and tons of inactives.. The best guild is decided by lots of other things u c..

Even on s4, the best guilds are VI and SF but they aren't on the top of the table.. Its quality that matters here.. Active players is what we want..

exactly. that was what i tried to say but sorry i am not so good in words.

and morbaag you did got what i say. This is just a game but since we are paying attention and trying to collobrate ofcourse we do expect more attandance. both in quality and quantity.

Soooo, lets just go ahead and make rules. We already have a basic list, somewhere above my post, lets clarify it, and get it set somewhere, like on our guild page.

|Angela| wrote:

Ok for the new guild page this is how the guild requirements is going to look. It is based on morbaag and Thraven have posted here earlier..

1. Should be an active player
2. Should donate gold to the guild if and when an expansion of the guild castle is necessary and if the sfatt asks you to.
3. Register with the forum on joining and visit weekly at least. The forums are how we exchange ideas and plans
4. Never attack members of our guild or our allies
5. If you are a premium member. put [DS] in front of your name
6. Keep your WIN/LOSS and Gold(+)/Gold(-) ratio in good standing. If the guild notice you have been falling in this areas, you will get a warning about getting your status straight. If not you will be kicked out of the guild due to others who are willing to replace you.
7. Inform the guild of repeated attacks you, and their guild if they have one. Also spend your money to avoid being added to someones loot list

I've already made the image request so please send me an ingame message if u have any issue with this..

Kay found the latest copy. Any changes, or maybe I am behind and Angela or company already are trying to post it on ouyr guild page, but its not their, so Ill pretend they arnt that far yet.

I KNOW ye can't attack your own guild members, so we can get rid of that, and I'm willin to bet Ye cant attack those ye are allied with.

Also we NEED a stat rule, stating something like, if you start to fall behind in your stat points, than we will kick you. Quality over quantity...